Monero Dev Meeting Note Highlights – 2017-10-01
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rehrarHere's the agenda for today: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/122
endogenicto get you present
rehrar1. Greetings
DaveyJonesvtnerd it's just so people that might be interested don't miss it on a lazy sunday ^ ^
vtnerdyeah, ok thats what I thought, so ahead of the game then
parasew[m]hi all!
rehrarheyo everyone!
endogenicnaturally
tewingetI'm here-ish, but the only input I have is that the thing that's been taking up most of my time is finished now. >_>
msvb-labHello.
serhackhey
serhackHi
rehrarBit of a small crowd today, but that's fine.
rehrar2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting
rehrarAnyone care to give an update?
parasew[m]haxx0r put a ruby-library online, its at https://github.com/krtschmr/monero ( i am helping also)
suraehowdy
rehrarI don't see tons of activity in the repos, it could be that everyone is working on super secret projects?
john_alanThe MRL has been busy from the updates I read
john_alanimpressive stuff
john_alanAny update there?
moneohey guys, I started developing a small monero client, and stumbled upon a problem: trying to manually fetch some jobs with the getjob method, I only get empty jobs as a respond
suraeMRL put out our 2nd quarter roadmap, Sarang and I are working in person together for the next few days. we are nearing completion on multisig paper, subaddress paper
suraesarang has been working on a new format for the MRL bulletin
moneoI'm querying xmrpool.net, an implementation from Snipa
rehrarmoneo: we're in a dev meeting right now man, you're welcome to join. It ends in about an hour.
john_alan\@surae sounds impressive, is that ruffCT multisig?
serhackmonero integrations are going well
rehrarsarang if you need help with formatting, shoot me a message. I'm down to get involved
sarangrehrar I'll definitely do that
sarangIt's basically down to proper author/affiliation format
ferretinjapanrehrar, o/
vtnerdI posted this in #monero-research-lab yesterday -> https://gist.github.com/vtnerd/0337f7daf71b33d945a984171c478bca
vtnerdits a utility for comparing various wallet-scanning performance improvement techniques and crypto libs
moneosorry rehrar, will ask later in that case.
vtnerdit was part for mymonero stuff, part for MRL info on using curve25519
suraevtnerd, you are absolutely awesome
bigreddmachinemoneo - try #monero-pools
rehrarno problem moneo, thanks for understanding
vtnerdthe most interesting result is trying to get spend-public decompression into mainline - it should improve wallet performance without any crypto lib changes
vtnerdamd64-51-30k (crypto lib not in mainline) improves by ~12%, I will know shortly how much ref10 (monero mainline) improves with this technique
vtnerdunfortunately this would require a re-arrangement of code in src/crypto, but the changes should be easy to audit
vtnerd(the amd64-51-30k variant requires not changes to src/crypto)
suraewhat's interesting about that, is there is a non-linear trade-off in verification time and blockchain space
vtnerdand thats probabyl the end of relevant material for this meeting …
suraethat 12% improvement might allow us some non-trivial ring size boosts
vtnerdwell the point de-compression is separate from curve25519
vtnerdso we could actually do both
suraeyeesh
bigreddmachinevtnerd, I thought amd64-51-30k is built into both supercop and nacl, and that Monero uses supercop?
vtnerdbasically for every output we currently decompress (y, xbit) into ->(x,y,z,t)
vtnerdthat only needs to be done once
vtnerdmonero does not use supercop, its all embedded. its some re-arranged version of ref10 from supercop
bigreddmachineahhh okay.
bigreddmachineso it selected pieces from supercop. makes sense.
vtnerdI have a PR which uses two amd64 variants from supercop with minimal changes (to work with position independent binaries)
vtnerdfluffypony created a separate repo for this to track changes to the crypto separate from our usage
bigreddmachinei see, thanks.
vtnerdso that PR needs updating to reflect that, plus this benchmark utility (with the curve25519 removed) will get rolled into that so users can determine which is faster on their machine easily
vtnerdoh! and curve25519 has neon implementations for arm … so theres that too! probably just for hyc though haha
msvb-labvtner: We're interested in MCU hardware implementations of dh25519 and curve25519 in case you come across any.
msvb-labFat chance though.
rehrarThanks vtnerd! Anyone else have anything to report of the last couple of weeks?
sarangI put out my monthly report (less of a dev thing, more of a research update), and plan to post the subaddress paper today w/ surae once we have the formatting all purdy
sarangAlso researching new developments in aggregate signatures
suraeoh, sarang and I are experiencing trouble with the forums still
bigreddmachineNot something I did, but the Monerujo Android Wallet left beta. Anyone know if anyone's audited the codebase?
sarangYes, true. After posting a comment to my original FFS post, it no longer works
suraemakes it hard for funding posts, etc… and we were hoping that MRL could get a suite of e-mail addresses or something
endogenichm i wonder if it's related to what just happened
parasew[m]surae: sarang - why not post to MRL github and then link it in /r/monero for now?
sarangI put the direct text into r/monero just now due to the FFS failure
parasew[m]the good thing about putting it into the github would be that people can subscribe and get research updates
sarangThat's a good point
sarangsurae ran his in r/monero in the same way
parasew[m]also there was a forum-update (or remake) planned, no?
rehrarForum to be scrapped
rehrarFFS is going to be integrated into the site proper
rehraryou can get a preview at getmonero.org/forum-funding-system for how it's going to look
suraeok, we'll just keep pestering rehrar behidn the scenes
rehrarSerhack and I will be looking at getting that finished up hopefully in the next month
parasew[m]although it's technically not 'forum funding' anymore :)
rehrarForum still works I think, based off the definition
msvb-labWas down for a bit this week wasn't it?
sarangrehrar that new update looks extremely legit
serhackrehrar yeah!
parasew[m]austria monero workgroup can also help w site updates (@serhack, @rehrar)
sarangI just creamed my design pants looking at it =p
serhackgreat parasew[m]
rehrarI'll contact you parasew[m]
serhackI come to austria every year
sarangMaybe rename it something like "community funding system" to stress the group nature of it
rehrarAlright, can we move on to the next point? It may not take super long because of the absences, but we'll see. We'
parasew[m]sarang: very good idea imho, also points more to community efforts
rehrarOops.
ArticMineI have an item https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/85
ArticMineProject licensing. This needs input from devs and the community
parasew[m]wow, this is a rather huge topic
ArticMineIt is about informing So the conversation can take place in GitHub
rehrarThanks ArticMine. Super important for sure.
sarangfluffypony brings up a good point about relicensing and the work it takes to contact contributors
ArticMineThat is one of the issues
moneromoooThere is no relicensing AFAIK.
moneromoooLMDB itself is relicensing. Not monero.
ArticMineBut it impact Monero
moneromoooAnd monero can use the same licence as it used before.
rehrarRight, so the conversation has since turned into a couple different questions:
rehrar1. Should Monero relicense to a dual license?
rehrar2. Should Monero have dependencies that are not completely permissive
sarangah ok
rehraras is my understanding anyway
moneromooo2 is leading.
sarangSo the LMDB switch would not require contacting contribs?
ArticMineIt is more complex than that, if the dependencies affect consensus code
rehrarah yes. Good clarification ArticMine. Sorry about that.
ArticMineThis is a critcal part of smooth's concerns
ArticMineWay to complex to deal with here
rehrarRight, so give it a read if you haven't already and make your opinion known. :)
rehrarLet's move on to: Code + ticket discussion / Q & A
ArticMineexactly
rehrarAgain, with not so many people around, this may not be a huge topic of discussion, but it's there if someone wants to discuss something.
rehrarNo? Alright. Then we can move on to the next point: Purism integration
rehrarThis is something that's happened recently that's very exciting that I wanted to share with you all and get dev opinions on.
rehrarfor those who don't know, https://puri.sm is a company that sells open source laptops (hardware and software) and is currently doing a crowdfunding campaign for mobile phones also
rehrara member of the Reddit community contacted them asking if they would accept Monero for their goods (they accept BTC now)
rehrarand they were pretty enthusiastic about the idea. I followed up with them, and spoke with the founder and CEO, Todd, and had a video conference with him
xmrmatterbridge<sgp> Awesome!
rehrarhe is not only interested in accepting Monero for their laptops and phones, but also integrating Monero into their Debian based operating system (PureOS) by default
endogenicnice
rehrarwe spoke at length about different cryptos, and he believes that Monero aligns the closest with Purism beliefs of digital privacy rights
parasew[m]very nice!
rehrarHe also says that many of his devs also push to Debian, so he had discussed with me that if they integate Monero into PureOS, they would see about trying to push into Debian as well
ArticMineThis is excellent. The one thing to watch is that Monero as a software dependency can become stale real fast
ArticMineSo we have to work very closely with out downstream on this
endogenicthat's a great point
ferretinjapansweet!
rehrarYes, I've spoken with ArticMine about these things, and have since emailed Todd about the concerns. Waiting to hear back from him.
rehrarSometime soon he is hoping to make a Purism press release about the Monero integration. I'll be helping with that, so be looking out for it.
rehrarIt would be helpful from anyone in the community with PureOS to test the Monero GUI on it and see if there's any issues.
rehrarhttps://pureos.net/
ArticMineUnfortunately I have to leave early today
sarangThis is a great development
rehrarBye ArticMine! Thanks.
bigreddmachinerehrar, i'll try to spin up a VM with pureos this week and let you know how it goes.
rehrarThanks bigreddmachine!
rehrarTheir mobile offering is still more than half a year away (it's being crowdfunded right now)
rehrarbut atm our GUI is (As far as I understand it) functional on mobile phones, but not optimized for it.
rehrarBut that's for Android, right?
rehrar(their phones will also have PureOS)
moneromoooThat answers why they didn't use Qubes…
rehrarQubes is 'partnered' with them and guaranteed to work on their systems
unknownidsif you order from them you can choose a USB with qubes on it
rehrarwell, one of their systems anyways
timothyqubes is "strange"
timothyit stil uses xen
rehrarWell, that's all from me about that. If anyone has any other things to say about it, we can discuss it after. Let's wrap up. :)
rehrar5. Any additional meeting items
rehrarI'll leave this open for a couple of minutes.
bigreddmachineanyone know how many eyes have looked at monerujo? wondering if it's been audited or anything, as I've seen people start recommending it
moneromoooProbably an even number.
parasew[m]just as a final note: 2 events in december - "Monero Month" in Vienna with the preparations of ccc and monero meetup, monero vienna workgroup ( seperately discussed in #monero-ccc )
bigreddmachine:)
parasew[m]and CCC itself: we need a prototype programm for the 34C3, planned is to create a joint larger meta-assemby with bitcoin-assembly and riat-assembly.
parasew[m]if anyone cares to help plan, etc. also in #monero-ccc
moneromoooIf anyone want to test the multisig stuff, feel free. It's about a half dozen PRs from the earliest one on github.
moneromoooOr review.
msvb-labbigreddmachine: Monerujo is available on the Google Play Store, since this week I think.
bigreddmachinemsvb-lab, yes, I know
msvb-labThat's probably why you're asking. I have the same curiosity in any case.
xmrmatterbridge<sgp> Can we have all the IRC channels relayed to Mattermost? Only a handful are
rehrarWhat other channels do you want?
dEBRUYNE<rehrar> But that's for Android, right? <= iOS too and we can probably make it work with other operating systems.
rehrarAwesome dEBRUYNE! Thanks. :)
rehrarAlright we need to wrap up.
rehrar6. Confirm next meeting date/time
xmrmatterbridge<sgp> @rehrar I made a list on Taiga. Can't remember on the top of my head
rehrarOctober 15th, same time?
rehrarok, thanks sgp
rehrarOk. That's it guys. Thanks so much! :) Have a good weekend. No Kovri meeting (they're moving to Fridays)
Sources and notes
- Meeting log: Overview and Logs for the Dev Meeting Held on 2017-10-01, getmonero.org. The official post carried the raw log and pointed readers to Hello Monero for the overview.
- Original Hello Monero URL slug recovered from the Wayback Machine index; the original page content did not survive, so this reconstruction carries the log as archived by the Monero Project.