Monero Dev Meeting Note Highlights – 2017-09-17
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fluffypony1. Greetings
fluffypony2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting
fluffypony3. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A
fluffypony4. Release timeline: moving releases to 3-months-before-forks or similar
fluffypony5. Maintainer: migrating luigi1111 from backup maintainer to lead maintainer on GUI and site
fluffypony5. Any additional meeting items
fluffypony6. Confirm next meeting date/time
fluffyponylet's start with 1
serhackHi
hrumagHi
shillosophero/
rbrunner7Grüezi
rehrarYo
i2plightfighterhola
imheretolearnhola
msvb-labhello
sarangyo
suraeguten tag
luigi1111Oh hai
imheretolearnni hao
hychi
fluffyponyArticMine / othe / smooth / moneromooo / tewinget / anonimal / endogenic / gingeropolous / iDunk / JacobJeweler / kenshi84 / knaccc / MoroccanMalinoi- / NoodleDoodle / papa_lazzarou / wallet42 / vtnerd_ / anyone I forgot
ArticMineGreetings
iDunko/
moneromoooYou forgot fluffypony in that list.
fluffyponylol
surae22nd century historians are going to have a hell of a time writing books on the birth of cryptocurrency.
moroccanmalinoisHi
fluffyponypigeons sends his apologies, he let me know yesterday that he wouldn't make today's meeting
fluffyponyso anything that is wrong we can comfortably blame on him
fluffyponysince he isn't here to defend himself :-P
fluffyponyok
fluffyponylet's move on to 2
fluffyponyso not much has happened since the last meeting
fluffyponya release or something
fluffyponynothing major
suraeheh
hycI heard we spawned XMRclassic
fluffyponyMonero ABC
suraei used XMRcash at a coffee shop, but my card was declined :(
fluffyponyinb4 XCash
fluffyponyon the topic of the release, and now is as good a time to talk about it as any
hycoooo, I like that one
fluffyponyas you may (or may not) have noticed this release was a little rockier than we'd hoped
rbrunner7Yeah
fluffyponywe've known for a while that our testing horizons are too close
fluffyponya little while ago smooth suggested having MUCH further horizons and sunsets, which I tend to agree with
suraewhat are the thoughts on modifying that, then?
fluffyponyso what we'd like to do moving forward is work our horizons of a 6 month schedule, offset from the hard forks by 3 months
fluffyponyin other words
fluffyponyhard forks happen March and September
fluffyponyand code freezes happen mid-June and mid-December
fluffyponyso practically let's look at the next year as an example
ArticMine… but will we follow the code freezes?
fluffyponywe have 3 months from now to put stuff in the code, and then we code-freeze in mid-December
imheretolearnwill a 3 month code freeze have a side effect of slowing development?
fluffyponythat means we branch in mid-December
serhackOkay and then a new release?
hrumagYou could follow the timeline used bu ubuntu
hrumagby*
fluffyponyfrom mid-December we have some time to test, fix bugs, get the branch stable
fluffypony(and port fixes to and from master)
fluffyponywith a view to tagging a release as soon as we think there's some stability
moneromooo3 months seems maybe a bit large, but let's try it. I'm curious to see how much of a pita it'll be to have to branches.
moneromoooto have 2
fluffyponythe nice thing is that the release CAN have bugs, because not everyone will upgrade until closer to the hard fork
fluffyponyand so subsequent releases can patch bugs
serhackSeems good idea fluffypony
sarangagreed
moneromoooThe only thing is that it only leaves 3 months to get range proof changes in… :/
fluffyponyit also means we can have loads of small point releases up to the hard fork, because there isn't much that changes except bug fixes
moneromoooor 9. or 12.
hrumagI totally agree with fluffy
fluffyponymoneromooo: if we don't hit the mid-December target then leave it for the next one, we have 6 months thereafter
luigi11113 months seems fine to me. The release can be out a while before the fork with no negatives really
fluffyponyyeah exactly
luigi1111Besides maybe some delay in new features
fluffyponyand it means that for 3-ish months the network is running both stable and newer versions
ArticMineIt is a way safer approach
hrumaghttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule if it can help
fluffyponymost exchanges / pools will stick to the previous stable release
luigi1111Mooo we'll just have to get it done by December then:)
fluffyponysome brave ones will upgrade early
moneromooo^_^
luigi1111Since like, ms is working and such
moneromooo-_-
fluffyponythe real issue is that we have to decide on a new release name within the next 3 months
fluffypony:-P
knacccIridium Iris
hycLithim lizard
hyclithium
fluffyponyalso as pointed out this will mean that some features take a lot longer to go live in the mainnet codebase than we might hope (emergency patches / forks aside)
suraehypothetical helicopter?
fluffyponyso it means we're going to have to be patient when things don't progress as rapidly as we'd like
fluffyponywe can happily deploy stuff on testnet, we've had to do massive reorgs on testnet before and it handled it just fine
dEBRUYNEgrabs torches and pitchforks
fluffyponyand iirc Snipa had some experience setting up a mini closed testnet
luigi1111I don't really think 2 ish months is "a lotc
msvb-labDumb question, what's the name of the current 0.11 release?
luigi1111"lot"
fluffyponymsvb-lab: Helium Hydra
suraeoh so hypothetical helicotper is right out. :( too bad we missed the possibility for Gluttonous Ganesh?
fluffyponyaka Hail Hydra
msvb-labhyc: Then lithium wouldn't work would it? It doesn't start with 'I'.
sarangIrritable Ibex
imheretolearni agrree knaccc iridium iris
hycprivate testnets are easy, just takes 2 nodes pointed at each other –add-exclusive-node
fluffyponyyarp
hycrelease names aren't alphabetical, they're elements. periodic table.
fluffypony^^
fluffyponythere's a release naming doc in the meta repo
imheretolearniridium iris will have range proofs improvements, larger ring size multi sig and encrypted payment ids. major release
luigi1111Ugh stop talking about release names
moneromooo\^
moneromoooGet on with it :D
fluffyponylet's move on
fluffypony3. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A
fluffyponyI'd like to start merging in the big PRs that have been hanging around
hycthere's still a good number of PRs that could be merged soon. should we be planning a point release in the next month or two?
fluffyponysub-addresses, multisig, 0MQ, etc.
fluffyponyhyc: yes - I had to first merge the PRs that were already merged in the branch, which I finished a couple of days ago
moneromoooFor the record: multisig is not ready yet. It's got a DO NOT MERGE sign.
fluffyponyok
fluffyponymoneromooo: is it waiting on code or MRL stuff?
luigi1111yes
knacccI just wanted to point out, in case it had slipped through the cracks, that kenshi84 has partially implemented subaddresses in the GUI but there are wireframe mockups he wasn't able to implement because he's not used Qt much before. The mockups suggested to be implemented are here https://github.com/monero-project/monero-core/pull/793#issuecomment-314477091
moneromoooIt's waiting on me making core tests for it, and cleaning up.
moneromoooAnd the core tests are a massive pita.
fluffyponymoneromooo: ok cool
fluffyponymoneromooo: is it worth looking at a different test framework?
luigi1111all of these things are not forking, so could be added whenever
moneromoooNot really, core tests are great, powerful, and I love them. I also hate them.
moneromoooOnce they work, they're really great.
fluffyponyknaccc: ok cool, hopefully someone can pick that work up
luigi1111n-1 only recently started working, so I assume it needs some testing etc
suraesarang and i are nearing completion on both the multisig paper, which requires new security definitions, and the sub-address paper (and that scheme looks pretty good!). the multisig stuff, if you held a gun to my head, i would say is secure, but until the proofs are written up, i don't want to say anything about it definitively
fluffyponyknaccc: else if we need to find a QtQuick developer and pay them we can afford to do so
hycso should we continue to PR to the release branch in addition to master?
suraewe anticipate both of those papers to be done as MRL bulletins by end of November.
moneromoooI hope not.
fluffyponyhyc: no
fluffyponyrelease branch is for bug fixes only
fluffyponysurae: ok great
hycok
i2plightfighteris there a README for writing new tests? if not could one be added?
moneromoooNo. Sure.
fluffypony@lightfighter no there isn't, but it's something you could tackle if you're up for it
fluffyponyon the topic of tests
moneromoooBut really, I start from an existing one.
fluffyponyif anyone is unfamiliar with the codebase and wants to learn, adding tests is literally the best way
fluffyponythere are tons of things that lack unit tests
moneromoooUnit tests are very easy to add.
fluffyponyneed moar test coverage plx
suraeunit tests are. so. freaking. helpful.
moneromoooThough they might need API changes to expose bits and bobs.
hycin that regard, might be nice to appoint a release/test manager, responsible to either run tests or collect test results from the community
fluffyponyhyc: good idea
parasewwill definitely start implementing tests, its in a way comforting :)
fluffyponyI wonder if we couldn't build a little web API that people could submit test results to
i2plightfighterfluffypony: i'd be happy to start working on test docs. is the GTest primer a good place to start?
moneromooohttps://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues ?
vtnerdboost has some such framework, but I dont know much about it
parasewon another note: in the current gui-release, the mining has issues – other people also reported at monero meetup.
vtnerdvarious members run machines on various processors / platforms
i2plightfighteralso agree that writing tests is best way to learn codebase (my main motivation for doing so)
fluffyponyparasew: then they must open an issue on GitHub
dEBRUYNEparasew: Already reported on monero-core github repository
parasewfluffypony ofc, will pass that on.
parasewdEBRUYNE which issue?
parasewdEBRUYNE ty, will also have a look!
fluffyponylet's give some thought to a reportable web API that can collate test results, we'll figure out a nice way of doing it
hyca web tool sounds like a great idea. I don't know of one at the moment.
dEBRUYNEhyc: for the GUI release I created a reddit thread with buildbot bins and compiling instructions
dEBRUYNESubsequently I put up all reports on Github
dEBRUYNEBut it'd be preferable if we have a more streamlined process
hycindeed
dEBRUYNE(to report issues that is)
fluffyponyagreed
rehrarWill look into it
fluffyponywe'd probably have to roll our own tool for this, let's see
moneromoooAnyone who knows about DNS/DNSSEC btw ? We need to fix how we do that apparently, but I know nothing aobut DNS :/
moneromoooThoise are the failing unit tests.
dEBRUYNEI suppose though that if we'd create something like that someone still has to create issues on github
suraesarang? know anything about DNS?
hycDNSSEC in particular
sarangProtocol? Some. Implementations? Negatory
hycwe need to find out why libunbound is complaining now
moneromoooThe complaint's likely unrelated, and due to the openssl config.
moneromooo(assuming you mean the "invalid algorithm" or so)
fluffyponycould be openssl related
hycyes. I've only hit that in the past with a crippled Android libssl
hycso I'm surprised to see it on an up-to-date desktop build
fluffyponyI'm also open to dumping unbound in favour of another library
fluffyponywe literally only use it for DNS / DNSSEC
moneromoooGuess I'll have a look to see what libraries there are for this.
parasewis there an irc log online somewhere? (i came a bit late)
fluffyponyok let's do that, Unbound has been a PITA for a while
moneromoooOr… leave it till someone who knows about DNS pops in…
fluffyponyparasew: it'll be posted up after
suraeparasew the minutes will be posted after the meeting
fluffyponyok let's move on
serhack;)
parasewthanka fluffypony, surae i just wanted to catch up now, but its ok :(
fluffypony4. Release timeline: moving releases to 3-months-before-forks or similar
fluffyponywe already covered that
fluffyponyso moving on
fluffypony5. Maintainer: migrating luigi1111 from backup maintainer to lead maintainer on GUI and site
moneromoooDoes he agree to ? :)
fluffyponywell, moneromooo, luigi1111 has gone full-time crypto since he's made millions from the Monero ICO
dEBRUYNENo we forced him :P
hyclol
fluffyponyso he can merge from atop the mountain in his Lambo
suraei hear Lambos work real great on mountains
rehrarCongrats Luigi. An example to us all.
fluffyponydoes anyone have an objection to me moving to backup maintainer on the GUI and the site, and luigi1111 moving to lead maintainer? I'd probably still do GUI releases since they're done in conjunction with the CLI
serhackA little fun fact
serhackOh great Luigi
hycSounds like a good move
fluffyponyor we'll do it together or something
rehrarWill Luigi just merge the site repo, or also put it on the server?
serhackCongratulations
hycbut that reminds me we need to move forward on deterministic builds
fluffyponyrehrar: pulling on the site is still manual in case the repo gets compromised
rehrarRight.
suraeis this marking a fundamental shift in the power dynamics of Monero?
rehrarSo will he do that manual task too, or is that still you?
fluffyponywhich would be embarrassing, but not as embarrassing as the site being compromised via the repo
fluffyponyrehrar: still me, but it takes me ten seconds
fluffyponyso he'll ping me
rehrarK.
fluffyponysurae: yes, we're appointing luigi1111 as CTO (Chief Trolling Officer), whilst I focus on my role as CEO (Chief Entertainment Officer)
fluffyponyI can't do both any more, it's too much for one troll
suraeoh man, can luigi make fancy videos of people wistfully walking through the wheat? i'm not sure if anyone can do that like you. :( (moving on…)
fluffyponylol
fluffyponyok
fluffypony5. Any additional meeting items
imheretolearnglobee or mymonero updates?
scoobybejesusMooo and other FFS to fund, perhaps
hycapp store progress?
serhackFfs?
fluffyponyMyMonero Google account is ready
fluffyponywaiting on our D-U-N-S number for Apple
fluffyponyor as endogenic joked, we're waiting on our DUNCE number
serhackHow many monero have we collected for ffs?
fluffyponyscoobybejesus: huh?
dEBRUYNEI think scoobybejesus suggests to discuss the FFS proposals (if we want to)
fluffyponyserhack: open them and check
fluffyponyOlufunmilayo: don't ask to ask, just ask :)
scoobybejesusReally just bringing them to light. Yes.
suraeMRL is about to put out our second roadmap (which includes an update to the first one). hyc already provided some copy-editing comments. we are currently looking for 1) typos and copy-editing stuff, but more importantly 2) any projects the developers feel should be included that are not being included, and 3) any inaccuracies in the statements we've made already.
sarangWe'll wait while everyone reads all 12 pages
suraePM us with edits and comments. sarang and i both have edit access
fluffyponysurae: only thing I'd like to add there in section 7 is a note about zk-STARKs being preferable since no trustless setup, but memory / CPU requirements are too high atm, so maybe we just stick to zk-SNARKs in the interim
moneromoooWe'll have to decide on an ordering for merging stuff, because there's a glut again, and that means conflicts.
moneromoooHow about 0MQ first ?
Olufunmilayofluffypony, nvm, now that I typed it up and re read scroll back it has already been addressed
suraefluffypony: zk-starks aren't published yet and afaik only the creators have even pseudocode. currently, unless i'm wrong, zk-starks are a myth, and until i see some proofs otherwise, i'm going to pretend like they aren't available yet. but i can mention them as a "next step" under section 7
hycyeah, let's go with older PRs first
hycalthough for gdb sanity I would like threadpool to go in soon.
Jaqueeshouldnt threadpool be added to release branch?
sarangOn a meta-MRL note, I'd like to offer my thanks to everyone who supported the FFS to bring me aboard
msvb-labmoneromooo: I think it's pretty great we're integrating 0MQ, but I'm not that qualified to vote on PR arangement.
fluffyponysurae: sounds good
fluffyponymoneromooo: I agree - 0MQ and DRY PRs, and then threadpool?
moneromoooOK
hycJaquee: not sure threadpool counts as a bugfix
dEBRUYNEmoneromooo: Did you manage to provide feedback to tewinget?
moneromoooMany times.
dEBRUYNEI think he asked for that, but you were busy with the release
suraealso, the section on untraceability in monero… i need some opinions on that, too, but i want people's fresh impressions of that section. i had a certain intention when i was writing it and i want to see how well it came across
tewingetsorry, was slightly afk
moneromoooIs there a list of things he wanted feedback on ?
dEBRUYNEtewinget \^
tewingetsaw my screen blink
fluffyponyJaquee: I agree with hyc - let's avoid merging anything that could be wonky if we can, release seems to be reasonably stable
Jaqueeall right
Jaqueewe can live with a little unresponsiveness i guess
Jaqueein gui ^^
moneromoooer… did you check it fixed your problenm in the first place ?
moneromoooI'm pretty sure it won't.
Jaqueeno i havent
hycit's worth checking. I also see responsiveness issues in current 0.11, monerod spawns too many threads during verification
aerbaxWith regards to the MyMonero AppStore deployments. If Google/Android is ready, are there any ongoing issues that would prevent a release?
dEBRUYNEI think they want to release all platforms in conjunction
Jaqueeare we using the same DUNS/account for monero apps?
fluffyponyJaquee: no, completely separate one
fluffyponyhave to have that distinction
paraseware there plans of putting the GUI into apple appstore?
fluffyponyboth are waiting on D-U-N-S numbers
Jaqueeok
fluffyponyparasew: yes, check previous meeting logs
parasewfluffypony ok, will do :)
msvb-labWhat's the main reason for one mobile platform release to wait until others are ready?
fluffyponyJaquee: we registered "Monero Distribution Company" as the name
serhackFluffypony: I have an android phone, can I test mymonero ? Can you send me an apk?
fluffyponymsvb-lab: on the Monero GUI side, nothing, we can push it into the Google Play store whenever
moneromoooAre we done with the dev stuff ?
fluffyponyon the MyMonero side we're still busy adding some stuff
msvb-labAdditional meeting items: Might be worth mentioning that both mattermost.getmonero.org and taiga.getmonero.org are quite bad ans.
fluffyponymostly porting stuff from the iOS app to the JS app
hyccoming up to top of the hour
fluffyponythanks hyc
fluffyponymsvb-lab: we can discuss that after
fluffyponyok so next meeting in 2 weeks
fluffypony1st October
Sources and notes
- Meeting log: Overview and Logs for the Dev Meeting Held on 2017-09-17, getmonero.org. The official post carried the raw log and pointed readers to Hello Monero for the overview.
- Original Hello Monero URL slug recovered from the Wayback Machine index; the original page content did not survive, so this reconstruction carries the log as archived by the Monero Project.